Let The Games Begin

**LanDroid** · January 6th, 2007, 06:24 PM

Uncle Sam poster

[ January 06, 2007 02:26 PM: Message edited by: LanDroid ]

**travelinman** · January 6th, 2007, 07:32 PM

What was Muhammad's attitude towards lying?

Muhammad treated truth and deception according his own style of situational ethics. Muhammad condoned, and actually permitted, lying to further his goals:

For example,

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

Muhammad clearly condoned dishonesty, as well as murder, when it suited his purposes.

Lying today

Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali says: "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible." (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)

**LanDroid** · January 7th, 2007, 12:44 AM

1. I don't think you know Jack Squat about Islam, Mr. Google Cut 'N Paste. Identical claims about Judaism are made by anti-Semitics.
2. Christian Senators, Congressmen, and Presidents have set an astonishingly low bar for Truth-telling.
3. It is more logical to equate all Christians with Rev. Fred Phelps than to equate all Muslims with Jihadists. Both are ridiculous, but one is even more of a stretch than the other...

[ January 06, 2007 08:46 PM: Message edited by: LanDroid ]

**Sean Pa** · January 7th, 2007, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Beachcomber:
And anyone who votes for a muslim in this country is a damned fool, you muslim ass kissers like Raven who want to paint anyone who sees them for who and what they are as "racist" are going to be the ruin of this country and Western Civilization. They are on a campaign of conquest and intolerance, period. There should be ZERO tolerance for muslims or islamics in our government in any shape or form.

Mcarthy would be proud.
So, There is a sizable Muslim community in the states, But they are not allowed political representation.?? Is there not yet a term Arab-American.?? Are you not the land of the Free?
Surely the majority of muslims can be seen as hardworking honest citizens.

**travelinman** · January 8th, 2007, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by LanDroid:
1. I don't think you know Jack Squat about Islam, Mr. Google Cut 'N Paste. Identical claims about Judaism are made by anti-Semitics.
2. Christian Senators, Congressmen, and Presidents have set an astonishingly low bar for Truth-telling.
3. It is more logical to equate all Christians with Rev. Fred Phelps than to equate all Muslims with Jihadists. Both are ridiculous, but one is even more of a stretch than the other...

[ January 06, 2007 08:46 PM: Message edited by: LanDroid ]

Unless you are telepathic you don?t know shit about my knowledge or understanding of religion.

Your examples of Christianity are based on humans and being human makes them poor representatives of faith. I provided quotes regarding the tenets of the Islamic faith and you respond with the acts of men. Faith and those who claim to represent that faith are not the same. You speak of the acts of men and I speak of the meaning of scripture.

The Christian faith is based on the New Testament. It doesn?t matter if you believe Jesus was a great profit and teacher, you believe he was actually the son of God or you believe he was a figment of someone?s imagination it does not change the message of the New Testament, just like all the peace loving Muslims in the world will not change the message of the Koran.

Christianity is based on love and forgiveness regardless how many men or woman pervert it for their own agenda. Islam is based on conquest through violence and treachery regardless how many men or woman want to live within the human community.

[ January 07, 2007 04:26 PM: Message edited by: travelinman ]

**Beachcomber** · January 8th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Sean Pa:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Beachcomber:
And anyone who votes for a muslim in this country is a damned fool, you muslim ass kissers like Raven who want to paint anyone who sees them for who and what they are as "racist" are going to be the ruin of this country and Western Civilization. They are on a campaign of conquest and intolerance, period. There should be ZERO tolerance for muslims or islamics in our government in any shape or form.

Mcarthy would be proud.
So, There is a sizable Muslim community in the states, But they are not allowed political representation.?? Is there not yet a term Arab-American.?? Are you not the land of the Free?
Surely the majority of muslims can be seen as hardworking honest citizens.<hr /></blockquote>Actually just being an "American" is to be relegated to minority status anymore, and identifying as such opens one up to labels of "racist" "skinhead" and "stupid" by the leftists who maintain control of the Democratic Party and mainstream media. During WWI Theodore Roosevelt made the point that we could not afford to identify as anything but "Americans" during a time of war. He found considerable objection to the term "German Americans" and what their "feelings" were in relation to the US involvement in the war. We are at war now, as is Western Civilization, Christianity and Judaism in general against a muslim enemy that seeks total victory. Those of you who make apologies, those who say "they are not all like that" are blinding yourselves to those who ARE. There is a considerable muslim/Middle Eastern population in the United States. It's what made 9/11 so easy for them to carry out. But then your own Subway bombing, the Madrid train bombing, those were just little boo-boos from the "Religion of Peace" I know. How stupid of me...

**travelinman** · January 8th, 2007, 03:25 PM

There can be no fifty-fifty Americanism in this country. There is room here for only 100 percent. Americanism, only for those who are Americans and nothing else.
Theodore Roosevelt

**travelinman** · January 8th, 2007, 03:33 PM

**travelinman** · January 8th, 2007, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Sean Pa:
Our worst act of terrorism was carried out by Irish Catholics. Substancially funded by (As Roosevelt would put it) Americans.

Not true, Roosevelt's Americans would never be funding the IRA. But Irish americans would. That was his point.

You just cannot blanket blame a whole section of the populous or how will those Arab-Americans ever Lose the "Arab" from that title.

It is the responsibility of the emigrant to become an American. Just as my grandparents were Italian-Americans when they arrived on Ellis Island because they were borne in Italy, but once they became naturalized they were no longer hyphenated and became Americans. My grandparents were proud to be Americans, they insisted on never speaking anything but English outside of their house. At one time emigrants came to America to be Americans and we were truly the Great Melting Pot, no longer.

**travelinman** · January 8th, 2007, 10:50 PM

[ January 08, 2007 06:54 PM: Message edited by: travelinman ]

Thread: Let The Games Begin

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